Qu'est-ce Que J D?
Knights of the roundtable discussion

dahelm:

Hey Jesse I like you, many of your ideas, and I really like your music, but I wholeheartedly disagree with your stance on this.

That’s cool!  I appreciate all of those things.  I agree with some parts of your response and see others differently (I won’t quote them all here because tumblr is so ugly for detailed responses; I hope people click to read them though!), but the part of what you’re saying that confuses me is that you start off by explaining “Nolan is reflecting on matters relevant not only in today’s society, but in the 1930s,” but continue to say things like “relating exaggerated comic book themes to real life or viewing it as some type of commentary.”

Don’t those two things contradict one another?  Am I misunderstanding?

Aside from that even, I don’t think that just because something is fiction, or has fantastic elements, that it doesn’t say things about the world in which it was written, or at least the author’s perspectives thereupon.  It seems to me that they’re inseparable, overall.

This movie wasn’t really even set in Gotham, in spite of what they kept calling the place.  It was set in New York City - there was a long, juicy exterior shot of Sak’s Fifth Ave, even.  Gotham wasn’t conceived in the first place as an unrealistic place - it was patterned on New York City from day one (“Gotham” is a nickname for NYC dating from the 19th century), and drew upon that city’s reputation for corruption and violent crime for its meaning.  Things expressed about Gotham City in Batman comic books are things expressed about real US cities.

The thing is that even total fantasy that’s meant to be less specific than that still tells stories about the real world, and a writer can’t help but show their own views when doing that.

So I’m trying to figure out the fundamental point on which we disagree - am I misunderstanding, or do you feel the film is actually intended to have no message?

  1. dahelm reblogged this from rljd and added:
    I could see where I left room for confusion. I didn’t fully articulate what I meant by that. What I was trying to say...
  2. rljd reblogged this from dahelm and added:
    That’s cool! I appreciate all of those things. I agree with some parts of your response and see others differently (I...
  3. scumsoft reblogged this from hassavocado and added:
    I have never been as attracted to Isaac as I am right now.
  4. hassavocado reblogged this from rljd and added:
    Hahahaha welp your last comment just completely demolishes your own argument. I mean, hey, first off, I don’t know what...
  5. mercurialblonde reblogged this from rljd and added:
    #spoilers I think she was in it about as much as Batman himself was in it. It is implied she came up from nothing and...
  6. navajomoose reblogged this from rljd and added:
    Yeah, I actually got kind of an opposite vibe from Catwoman. Like she starts out all “Batman doesn’t care about poor...
  7. wolvensnothere reblogged this from mercurialblonde and added:
    What @MercurialBlonde said. Selina Kyle saves the day, here.
  8. navajomoose said: Its interesting that the villains in Batman movies always criticize the “corruption” which batman of all people could probably fix, but between movies it’s kind of implied he spent the whole time beating up muggers.
  9. dahelm said: ay this hurts… I shall not comment (even though I just did).
  10. iconoclasticallyqueer reblogged this from rljd and added:
    Right? It felt like a heavy-handed propaganda piece. I laughed at it’s absurd depiction of police (especially the...
  11. wickedkvnt reblogged this from rljd and added:
    this is essentially why i have zero interest in seeing italso, batman is just another example of rich scum shitting on...
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